I'm with you, I find this ad pretty offensive....I'm not sure what they think it's going to achieve.

DJ

You both need to pull your head out of the ground. What exact part of this ad do you find offensive? The word 'bugger'? That's been used plenty of times before in ads, tv shows, movies, you name it. Is it the nature of the statement? Which, let's face it - has two meanings. Or are you scared for your own welfare as one of the perpetrators of paedophilia?

You've spent long enough on this ad to think about it, act on it by creating a forum for it and posting comments. I'd say the ad has worked better than the latest Nike or Coke ad you've both seen. Did their ads create a fire in the belly the same way? I think not.

As for the assumptions about what the ad was created for... what do you suggest they do? Have you ever given money to an NGO involved in this line of work before? If so, what was it about their ads that caught your eye? My guess is you haven't put your hand in your pocket for anything like this. And never will.

You question their motivations about highlighting the problem in Cambodia which insinuates you feel the best way to deal with the problem is to not talk about the problem. Better to turn a blind eye to it, right? Pretend it doesn't happen. Desensitize yourself to it like all the homelessness and poverty in Cambodia. I think you've become a little too comfortable with the Cambodian way of 'let's not talk about about problems until they become - what problem?' ie. the prostitution, the corruption, etc.

I think the ad is brilliant. It should strike fear in every paedophiles' mind. If it puts them off coming here, it's working. If it creates enough emotion to get funding and put more of these animals behind bars, it's working. If it helps make the women and children of Cambodia safer, it's working. If it gets people talking about it in forums, blogs, at the water fountain at work, it's working.

I'm off to put my money where my mouth is - Sisha can have $20 from me. Their ad reflects the anger I feel knowing the this stuff is happening on our doorsteps.

Keep up the good work Sisha.

I don't think I've ever resorted to insults on a forum, but I stopped reading your post right here:

"Or are you scared for your own welfare as one of the perpetrators of paedophilia? "

Go fuck yourself.

Admin, is there a way to filter posters? I don't know if the rest of his/her post made sense or not, but I don't wish to read anything more from this odious tick.

And in response to rigger...

Do you take every ad you see literally? Wow, I really pity you. You must be disappointed every time you spray Axe(Lynx) under the arms. I can just imagine you thinking to yourself, "Where are the millions of ladies chasing me down the road?" Or how about a Kit Kat? I imagine you always have a break when you're eating one. What about your Adidas shoes? Do you feel like you can bend it like Beckham because you're wearing them?

It's really sad to think you could be so naive. I feel sorry for you.

Have I struck a nerve rhook?

Hmmm. Guilty as charged! Stay away from my kids please.

Yes I agree the whole subject of Pedophilia is offensive.

Frankly if you are genuinely against Pedophilia you should be happy to see that someone is trying to stamp this out.

Not offended by it.

Rigger,

You have to stop looking at just one side of the meaning for the word bugger.

As you well know it also means to ruin something.

That's purely the meaning here not as you say as a punishment for the crime.

You'd have to be crazy to think that the intention here is to sexually abuse them for their offenses.

But then you knew that didn't you.

The tone of the comments on here is completely out of order.

The ad is unacceptable for a number for a number of reasons and it shouldn't invite such invective and scorn for a person to point that out.

In a civilised society one doesn't invite a lynch mob attitude towards criminals - there are better ways to draw attention to an issue. Note that nobody on this site has debated how to catch pedophiles, merely the creation of the ad. That's the definition of failure for an ad - it means nobody's buying the product.

I don't come to this forum to have other people's - or advertisers - angry viewpoints about social issues shoved down my throat.

Get enough of that elsewhere, thanks.

DJ

I noticed that the two "pro bugger" posters are new members as of today.

Are you related to this advertisement or organisation in any way?

Obviously there are multiple meanings to the word bugger, but then you knew that didn't you : (

I can only speak for myself rigger when I say, "I have nothing to do with this ad". I'm normally a guest here, but felt compelled to defend an ad that is anti paedophilia. My simple view on the matter is, you're either anti or your for. Never the twain shall meet. Malcolm X once said, "By any means necessary"... I couldn't agree more. So when I read the first two comments here, that was motivation enough to become a member. What are the motivations of those that are against an anti paedophilia ad I wonder?

You tell me.

Not sure what all the fuss is over. I think that SISHA is run by Australians, so I googled - aussie slang bugger -

Yes there are many meanings and ONE is classfied as vulgar - and that British - (its from the wiki page)
I really cannot understand what all the fuss is about. It seems to me that its simply an awareness campaign to alert certain types who visit Cambodia that there are people aware of whats going on in this country if they decide to "play silly buggers"

Personally, if it keeps certain types out of the country or makes them think twice then i think that its a good ad.

____________________________
bugger - general term for any person
bugger around - waste time
bugger it! - exclamation of contempt
bugger me dead - exclamation of amazement
bugger off - go away!
bugger up - ruin; spoil
bugger all - nothing
buggered - broken; very tired
buggered if I know - haven't got a clue
buggered up - ruined; broken
buggerise around - waste time
buggerlugs - affectionate term used to mildly annoy somebody
buggery - a far away place
http://www.geocities.com/napavalley/4699/slang-atoe.htm

_____________________
Bugger me dead - extremely shocked at something
Bugger off - telling someone to go away, in a not very nice way
Buggery, go to the - being asked to leave or keep your nose out-in a very nasty way
http://www.australianhistory.org/australian-slang-atod.php
_________________

Verb - Infinitive - to bugger
Third person singular - buggers
Simple past -buggered
Past participle - buggered
Present participle - buggering

to bugger (third-person singular simple present buggers, present participle buggering, simple past and past participle buggered)
1. (vulgar, British) To sodomize. - To be buggered sore like a hobo's whore (Attributed to Harry Mclintock's 1920s era Big Rock Candy Mountain)
2. (slang, vulgar in British) To break or ruin.
This computer is buggered! Oh no! I've buggered it up.
3. (slang, British) To be surprised.
Bugger me sideways! Bugger me, here's my bus. Well, I'm buggered!
4. (slang, British) To feel contempt for some person or thing.
Bugger Bognor. (Alleged to be the last words of king George V of the United Kingdom in response to a suggestion that he might recover from his illness and visit Bognor Regis.)
5. (slang, British) To feel frustration with something, or to consider that something is futile.
Bugger this for a lark. Bugger this for a game of soldiers.
6. (slang, British) To be fatigued.
I'm buggered from all that walking.
Derived terms
* bugger off
* buggery
* bugger all
* to play silly buggers
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bugger

How about this one ;

PEDOS - WHERE THE BLOODY HELL ARE YOU ?

KK

KK...lets not drag it down to that level...

The org could have chosen any number more productive messages. "Walls have eyes" might make a half decent campaign basis for example. Or dramatizing all the resources, expertise, manpower that goes into a stake out (to paedos: "we have a small army watching you", to donors "look how expensive this stuff is").

But no.

"Bugger" is a swear-word. I don't want it in big letters on my screen. I don't want to have to explain what it means to people sitting with me.

I don't support hate organizations, even if the targets of that hatred are indeed loathsome.

I don't support organisations that produce offensive advertising even if they do good work, and especially if their response to criticism is "tough", or worse.

The ad is counter-productive. I doubt it will scare paedophiles, I think they understand the depth of feeling toward them already. It might actually encourage them. It seems to say "It's so easy for you in Cambodia, that here is an org resorting to rousing a lynch mob in order to catch you".

I don't support organisations that might waste my money on such counter-productive advertising.

Protecting children, catching predators, is not helped by encouraging swashbuckling citizen gumshoe heroes to have a go.

The ad makes me think this org is full of idealistic zealous (and aggressive) young interns, not serious, dedicated pros who might actually be able to make a difference.

Or worse, that this org is another self-serving "snout in the trough" using shock advertising tactics to elicit donations.

Accusing anyone who criticizes an anti-paedo group of potentially being a paedophile is not only insulting, and just a nonsense argument, but again, counter-productive. Is that what these organisations do? Witch-hunt?

I don't believe for a second the poster who made that puerile assertion (twice!) has kids, but if so I would suggest a more balanced, less idealistic, less aggressive adult might make a better guardian.

Anyone who appears so wracked with hatred over paedophiles perhaps has some issues themselves. Plenty of game-keepers are in fact poachers - there are numerous such cases in the tabloid press. Fess up

EDIT, I see AG has arrived, and the ad is still there, so I'll be sticking to my point about the swear-word, and not reading further.

EDIT2: KK: LOL! I just wasted a 15 mins on a page, when you said it all in a sentence!

Jesus christ, what the hell is happening here? An ad sets out to raise money with an attention grabbing headline that is OBVIOUSLY NOT intended to promote mass buggery of sex offenders, and people on this forum leap to attack it.

If certain people on this forum spent half the time trying to improve Cambodia's situation that they spend attacking NGO's and celebrating the joy of girly bars, the world would be a much better place.

I may not agree with the way all points were made, and accusations, but I agree 100% with surtristram's basic points.

The rest of you, desist with your mock outrage, stop attacking people, grow up and start trying to help instead.

Quotes from rhook
"Or are you scared for your own welfare as one of the perpetrators of paedophilia? "
Go fuck yourself.

"Bugger" is a swear-word. I don't want it in big letters on my screen. I don't want to have to explain what it means to people sitting with me.

Yes AG is here. I monitor these forums.
The Ad is NOT a paid for AD -
AG is a parent and supports this group.

That's all I have to say on this matter for now. I do have better thing than to watch anonymous cowards attack each other on a forum.
As I have offered before - if you want some credibility. I am more than happy to change your user name to your real name. All you need to do is ask.

The ad clear states a message to pedophiles - Google that word -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia - saved you the trouble -

Maybe you don't want to click the ad so here is a direct link to the Sisha Site. http://www.sisha.org/
maybe have a look at the site (read it) before openly (anonymously) criticizing others.

Thanks To Stew Ball for your reasoning.

If you do NOT wish to follow this discussion simply un-check the box at the bottom and you wont get anymore reminders.

now lets all play nice shall we

If anything the Ad didn't go far enough......

It should say something along the lines of.....

Cut off the testicles of Pedophiles... chop them in small pieces.. feed them to back to them as they bleed slowly to death for weeks/months/years...

Great banner ad which clearly has caused a very polarised response, however for those that know SISHA they will know that they are a grassroots NGO who aren't driving Landcruisers and living in huge villas, but instead devote almost every dollar they gain from donations to investigations and arrests of international and local pedophiles and people who exploit and traffic women and kids. I don't particularly care whether people like or hate the banner ad or the language, the point is these guys are doing great work and I personally am very happy to support them financially. And before you ask, I have been a member of this forum for over a year and have known of SISHA's work for sometime. I only hope this exposure increases the amount of support to them so that more investigations can occur to put Cambodia off the map for these type of tourists. Well done to SISHA and keep up the great work.

I have never heard of Sisha before, but Anthony I'm disappointed in you and your response to this. I think you need to think a bit more about what the aim of the site is and your professional approach to advertising.

And I don't give a damn if you print my name or not.

DJ

Anthony I admire your stand on this.

Like 99% of people you are obviously disgusted and appaulled by Paedophiles and my understanding of this site is to make people aware of Cambodia as a great place to visit and to help make it a safe enviroment free of paedophile creeps and the like.

Congratulations mate well done you are using your site correctly.

I agree with DJ36. You seriously need to think a bit more whether this site needs Paedophile sympathizers and people with narrow bigoted points of view because you and your loyal posters are better off without them.

Yes please print DJ36's name so we can all know who this person really is and while you're at it print rhook's as well because they have serious issues and need help.

And well done Sisha for putting your balls on the line and telling it like it really is.

Who is sisha?
Why do some here attack people who dont agree with the ad by suggesting that they may have an ulterior motive.
If the sihsa gang start targeting all paedos instead of just barangs it would be good.
Let us know when you start getting out into the asian and khmer paedo networks brothers,you will then deserve a medal because you are genuine.
If you dont attack asian child abusers then you are just another NGO wanker.
Let us now how many khmer girls that you have saved from local brothels in the next few months.
If you are serious and committed you should be able to rescue hundreds of girls a month.
Keep us posted please,otherwise i will have to say bugger,another NGO wanker.
Just pushed the the edit button after going to the sisha website and reading that steve and dean of sisha are ex victorian and WA police officers.
One could certainly say after the revelations about victorian police and their links to murderous gangsters and the drug trade that the victorian police force is the best that money can buy.
These chaps may well have their hearts in then right place but they are certainly naive.Their site has a section about training the cambodian polce force re trafficking etc.
Are they serious?
It seems to me that the trafficking laws have given local police an opportunity to rob and rape unfortunate sex workers and then extort money from their families for the womens release.
If these guys are committed then all power to them but empty platitudes which is all they are about will help no one.
Lets see these ex australian plods front up to khmer massage parlours,KTVs and various karaokes and free victims all over the country,they wont be around long.

I donated $30 today, so it worked for me. Case closed.

Whilst we are outing people, can we please have an IP snapshot of all the new users so we can see they are not all the same EAS sock puppet.

And totally OT but I am still trying to sell me SHEESHA pipe. $50. PM ME.

thanks

The board's resident silly bugger,

KK

Here are a few I have come up with;

PIN DOWN A RAPIST ( for the anti-rape NGO )
SLAP A HAPPY CLAPPER ( for the anti-religion NGO )
STICK IT TO A SNIFFER ( for the anti-drug NGO)
BASH A THUG ( for the anti-domestic violence NGO )

What do y'all think ? Very similar to SHISHA .

I agree. I think complaining about this ad is like complaining about Norodom Traffic.............

FYI, here are the some full page advertisement that are being planned.

When I saw the ad, I took the message to be, "put pederasses in jail so they can be sodomized by inmates"
I'm perfectly ok with that. What's the big deal?

About the Sisha ad, We are almost in 2010; PC is a thing of the past. We're talking about some sick, twisted SOB's, why are people getting so sensitive about the topic?

Does SISHA only deal with Ozzie pedderasses? I'm too lazy to check out their website.

I'm also down with what Poland is doing

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090925/od_nm/us_castration;_ylt=AhUV3JA4YOW...

Warhorse, Thank god you're not in charge.

The infamous Toyota 'bugger' ad (banned in NZ temporarily, not banned in Australia) Made in NZ

Just wondering if SiSha have also printed this advert in Khmer and Chinese and put them in appropriate magazines.

I am sure that everyone living in PP knows that the problem of international pedophilia is the tip of the iceberg, and there are massive issues in Cambodia with crimes perpetuated both by locals and Asia tourists. A quick scan of the Phnom Penh Post every day is evidence enough of that. The problem is huge, but as the old saying goes, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

Rather then criticize the worthy efforts of one NGO which is targeting both local and international pedophile's, why don't we recognise the issue as an expatriate community, and make Cambodia a very uncomfortable place for foreign (and indeed local) pedophiles. As numerous posts have identified, the problem is obvious, and there is a clear recognition from all posts that the issue of pedophilia is abhorent, albeit the solution to it seems clouded.

My simple mind seems to dwell on one point, and to quote Burke, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing". Who are the good men (or women) amongst us, and what are we doing to stop the triumph of evil??

I agree with Marklatham and Warhorse ,they are right on the money.I didn`t like the Sisha ad,but respect the opinions of others who did like it.
Foreign paedophiles are a problem,but why aren`t the locals ever called paedophiles in the press.Gang rape is rife and sexual assault common amongst Cambodians.Anybody with money can do what they want because the corruption is so widespread and too many people are "untouchable" because they can buy their way out of trouble.
The Somaly Mam Foundation is also trying to combat this problem. I saw her u-tube clip from the Tyra Banks show and it was the saddest thing I have ever watched. Somaly was a child victim and now fights against child sex and trafficking. Somalys` own daughter was also kidnapped and raped as a punishment for her trying to stamp out this terrible outrage.Her daughter has been reuinited with Somaly.This woman is so brave and has suffered so much,and yet she has devoted her life to combat child prostitution and trafficking.
The worst thing about this is the police and officials turn a blind eye as long as they get their share of the cut. Very powerful people are involved in this vile trade and no NGO will ever get near them. Foreign paedophiles make good press and highlight the work of NGO`s.and are not "connected"and are therefore much easier to be brought to justice. I would also assume that most funding for these NGO`s comes from outside of Cambodia and therefore foreigners are targeted almost exclusively by them.
I am certainly not knocking the work of Sisha or other organisations .
Somaly Mam is the real deal.Nobody can have more insight to this terrible crime.If you have a strong enough stomach,watch her story unfold in 3 parts .

You're not meant to LIKE the ad Kev.

It's meant to be OFFENSIVE, stop people in their tracks, sit up and look at this deeply offensive problem.

In fact if you liked it there would be something seriously wrong.

You have to like what the people behind the ad are doing to stop this horrendous act.

And I LIKE that.

We agree, our Bugger a Paedophile banner was confronting. That’s because it deals with a confronting and ugly issue. Unfortunately, even though most people would agree that sex with children is abhorrent and ought to be stopped, it is very easy to turn a blind eye.

The purpose of our banner was to force people to take notice. To make it too hard to ignore. And we think we achieved that. We thank everyone who got involved in the forum on Expat Advisory. No matter your point of view – by taking notice and taking the time to make a comment you helped us to increase discussion around this issue and hopefully make people stop and think about some of the things that are happening around them. Things that they would probably rather ignore.

If you are interested in knowing more about SISHA and what we achieve you are encouraged to look at our website at www.sisha.org. More importantly if you are in a position to help by way of donation you can contribute via the website or contacting the director, Steve Morrish directly via email director [at] sisha [dot] org. Every dollar helps to keep SISHA on the ground saving lives and ensuring offenders are prosecuted. All donations to SISHA are 100% tax deductible, just follow the directions on our website.

Regards,

Steve Morrish
SISHA - Executive Director

Somaly mam-hmm.
Will find a link tomorrow that suggests that somaly mam is a fraud,this from someone very close to her.
Same person also says that nepotism is alive and well in her outfit-no surprise to anyone who knows cambodians really.
Stewball seem to have a problem with some men who come to cambodia and behave like...men!
Sorry stew but some of us see nothing wrong with consorting with willing young women of legal age.
The connection with pedos is beyond me.
Steve is genuine no doubt but we have seen all this before,concentrating on a handful of european offenders and totally ignoring the real problem of asian sex tourists and khmer offenders.
I could be wrong steve,are you about to advertise in the khmer media and about to send agents into ktvs,x2s and 5000 riel places?
I knew harvey who has been charged with offences against young girls,I wasnt really surprised.
He told me of a hotel on norodom where there was a whole floor of young girls for the benefit of asians only.
I could pass this info on but the chances of anything being done is zero i would say.
I really think that just another pedo busting outfit targeting the fat old slobs is a waste of time,it took over a year to nail harvey-why is this so?
I had personal experience of the way things work here.
My GF turned up at my hotel a couple of years ago with two young girls from her village who had been wandering the streets.Obviously deal gone wrong.
I asked what the girls were worth..maybe $500.
No GF says about $450 the pair.
She put them in a taxi and sent them home but they would have been back pretty quickly,money involved.
What are we to do about this everyday situation stewball?
Will not drinking in hostess bars change anything-dont think so brother.
These girls are sold to the 5000 riel places.
Any input here steve about the real problem in this country or are you guys content to tinker around the edges?

marklatham,I have done work in Cambodia due solely because of what I read and saw on the internet. You are criticising sisha because you say they are taking the route of catching ex-pat pedos.This is speculation which may or may not be true. The fact is they are at least doing something and they should be supported.
I have endorsed Somaly Mam because she has tackled the Cambodian pedos and it has cost her dear.Her daughter was kidnapped and gang raped.Those bastards would do all they could to bring down someone like Somaly because she is doing what others can`t.To say that she is a fraud because someone close to her says so is also speculation. Nepotism would be hard if you do not know who your mother it would follow that Somaly would not know any other family.Perhaps it could be some of the 4000 girls and women she has helped.She is based mainly in the USA because her life is in danger when she is in Cambodia.I suppose that you are going to slag off Susan Sarandon and Tyra Banks next.
You give the impression you know about the prostitution / trafficking business .You would then know that a lot of women who are saved from prostitution return to it for various reasons. Drug addiction and money are two main drivers ,especially when there are few other options .
If you have any information about a bar that has underage girls make it public on this forum.Steve would welcome any info I am sure.I am in Phnom Penh again in November.Through my contacts I can reach a very high goverment minister who I met in January.I will not name the minister,but I can say that I was personally thanked by them for helping one of their charities.Not all gov.ministers are bent like you would have us believe,although many are bent.This is the same all over the world and not just a Cambo problem.
You are good at knocking Cambodians and NGO`s . There are good and bad everywhere. I didn`t like Steves` ad,but I am certainly not going to slag him off. You are far too negative,I have met a lot of decent Cambodians who do nothing but help others.Are you in Cambodia ?.

ANDYTURK,
Yes I agree most NGO's in this line of work do similar things here. And yes we are bombarded with this kind of advertising here. Especially as it's the home of the sexually exploited. I would imagine a campaign for this audience would carry a completely different message.

As Humblepie in #15 so aptly stated above that this bugger campaign was obviously designed by Australians for Australia where the word bugger is widely used other than the sexual meaning.

That being the case I know that Australia is a place where alot of these Pedophiles come from and I also know that most Australians are not aware/don't care about that. That's why they need a edgy campaign that literally jolts them out of their complacency and makes them sit up and notice. Australians respond to this type of advertising: Blunt, direct and no bull shit. (like Australians themselves) Campaigns like "Drink and drive and you're a bloody idiot" are hugely successful. (Probably because alot of Aussies love to swear...just have a beer with one .)

You'll also notice that alot of posters on this thread support this campaign to the extent of what notjustmotion stated in #21 above: "maybe you didn't go far enough." So there will always be polarization in a sharp edged approach.

In terms of a point of difference between SISHA and other NGO's? Apart from doing very similar work one of the tangible differences I know of is that they spend 100% of their money and time on the problem and not on expensive villas in expensive areas and drive around in expensive 4WD's. These people have devoted all their own money and time to this cause and although this is important it is not the basis for a campaign to create immediate awareness of the Pedophile problem in Australia to an ignorant/complacent audience where Pedophilia awareness is very low.

What is important to communicate is A: This problem exists and B: Surprisingly a lot are from Australia.