Protest over bike rentals to foreigners
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Well lads, you reap what you sow. The last time I went to Sihanoukville, the US fleet was in and tuk tuk drivers were charging USD 200 a day.
As in Phnom Penh, in my opinion there are a handful of decent tuk tuk drivers. The rest are simply crooks who lie, cheat and scam tourists. If anything the government should regulate them as a group...and TAX them...Oh an yeah, teach them to drive "responsibly"
Protest over bike rentals to foreigners
More than 100 tuk tuk and motorbike taxi drivers protested in front of the provincial hall in Sihanoukville on Friday to demand an end to motorbike rentals and hotel bus service for foreign visitors.
“We have sent an intervention letter to the provincial hall officials to help us with the two points that we suggested to them,” Loeung Sithar, director of the Association of Motortaxi and Tuk Tuk Safety in Preah Sihanouk, said yesterday.
He added that tuk tuk and motorbike taxi drivers didn’t want to resort to protesting, but if the government allows the renting of motorbikes and picking up of tourists, they will not earn any income.
“We see that most tuk tuk and mototaxi drivers are losing income from driving guests because the guests can rent motorbikes to ride by themselves,” said Mang Socheat, director of the Independent Democracy of Informal Economy Association.
There are seven bus companies in Preah Sihanouk province that transport guests back and forth between bus stations and hotels, he said.
“These companies are competing with our business. They have a large amount of business and we only have a small amount, so they should allow us to earn a little money to support our families.”
Mang Socheat said that he would send another letter to the provincial hall to set up a date for a face-to-face discussion with the company owners to find a solution.
“We can help them with one suggestion out of the two that they demanded,” said Sok Phorn, deputy provincial cabinet chief of Preah Sihanouk. “We can close the motorbike rental services to foreign guests, but we cannot stop the bus companies from picking up guests because it is a free market, so they can do that,” he said.
“I will inform all places which are renting motorbikes to foreign guests to close this service,” he said, adding that renting motorbikes to foreigners had been prohibited last year, but had started again in 2010.
From the PP Post
Right on bruvvas.
Lets show these capitalist moto hiring companies how disorganised labour can bring them down.
I am staying at a place with many motos for hire but they are hardly ever out.
Either the guests dont want to spend an extra six dollars a day,or they can walk to the beach and to town,or they dont like riding a moto.
I had a run in with a tuk last week after returning from a fishing trip with several others.
He wanted five bucks and i thought that four was plenty,he dug in and it got very ugly.
He was a very ugly man as well.
I have my own moto here,I wonder if they would like to ban that too.
Perhaps they will ban barangs from driving cars and motos to snooky,we will all have to catch the bus.
What do we want
barangs without vehicles
when do we want it
NOW
PS-perhaps if they banned shoes and flip flops as well we would all be snookered or is that snookied?
Typical of Latham to treat this issue as a joke. It is this sort of attitude in itself that drives the tuk tuk drivers and motodops to treat barangs with cynicism and contempt. If we were all more polite in or dealings with locals, maybe they would start acting the same towards us. The mindset of the typical expat here is one of superiority, which is plainly seen by the attitude of Latham - "I'm a foreigner, I know best". Without wanting to stereotype, the over-55 male sector of the expat community is especially bad in this respect. In this age of budget airlines, the most obvious option would be to stop complaining and go home where everything is as you want it, instead of living here and complaining that if they did things like they do at home, Cambodia would be a much better place. The privilege of being a Westerner is that we can leave any time we want. Feel free to exercise it!
Complex issue, very interesting.
I feel sorry for these guys, many of them have wife, 3 or so kids, and earn what, $3 per day, also, some have mortgaged their tuk-tuk.
Most of my night-time experiences with tuk-tuk drivers are the same as mine back home (in the U.S.), the taxi guys are assholes late at night, and take advantage quickly when they see you drunk.
That said, as usual, there are no simple answers, which is f$%^&n' frustrating, cos there is no-one you can logically blame and condemn and slander.
A good approach would be to get all parties together, have someone connected, intelligent, experienced, ethical and trustworthy in charge, and design a strategic answer which benefits all parties, and then implement the program to all who reside in Timbuktu.
Woops! I just woke up!
BCS
Sihanoukville is a different story to Phnom Penh.
At least in Phnom Penh there is some real distinction between "good" tuk tuk drivers and "bad" tuk tuk drivers. The only time I have had bad experiences is near the riverside.
That said when I was in Sihanoukville last the driver I had was quite straightforward about everything. I got gouged but at least in a friendly way and he advised which areas of town to avoid at night and even had his friend escort us both back to my isolated hotel for fear of jaos.
I don't feel sorry for them at all. For fuck sake - it's a free fucking world . If tourists want to ride a rental bike so be it !There are still plenty of people who will need a tuk tuk. If the SHVTT weren't such thieving little turdsacks maybe more people would feel comfortable using them. They need to grow the fuck up and stop whingeing.
@ Hardhitter: Who's the whinger??
Elwood,
This isn't tweet mate. Take you @ n shove it you wine sipping nonce.
There are too many tuk tuk drivers for the population. Even tuk tuk drivers know that! The answer does not come from limiting bike rental etc (as we know), but from the government improving education, minimum wage, and from helping farmers, etc. The government could also use some of the aid it receives to assist Cambodians above a particular age in rural areas... those that were most affected by the KR years, etc. and missed out on the chance of an education.
ML and HH: agreed.
It's a free economy, as the government guy said. Besides which, I, for one, prefer to drive myself than the tuk-tuks ... sometimes a moto if i'm lazy, or concerned about parking issues, but if i'm going to use a tuk-tuk, then might as well be driving in something air-conned ...
perhaps it's time they considered the fact that the REAL reason they're losing business isn't that rental or pick-up services are available to tourists, but that those very tourists they've been ripping off, they travel on to other parts of the country - SR or PP - and realize how much they'd been gouged by the motos and tuk-tuk in snooky ... and so they pass the word onto friends,other ppl they meet, and people back home ... end result: people visiting snooky start seeking alternative transport ...
having said that, what they SHOULD consider doing is restricting motorbike rentals only to those customers who have a vaild cambodian o international drivers' license(even though the international ones aren't officially recognised here), for what it's worth ... i can see the safety benefits of that ... but banning rentals to foreigners outright? stupid rule, wouldn't work, unenforceable ... who's to say the moto i'm riding is a rental from snooky? what if i claimed i rented it in PP and drove down via the scenic route ... ? ... or i'm on my own bike ...
another thought just occurred to me ... most of the minibus pick-up services service the more expensive hotels ... most of their guests are either a bit older, or richer ... how many of them older couple would be willing to pile onto the back of a moto, with all their luggage either piled on their laps, or hanging perilously from the sides of the moto ... ? ... i suspect that for many such travellers, even if the minibuses weren't available, they wouldn't be availing themselvees of motos ... more likely, some enterprising souls would start up a metered taxi firm based in sihanoukville ... in fact, i'm surprised someone hasn't done that already!!
~Az.
@ Hardhitter. Fair point. No tweet you twit. Could be an idea to check your own spelling before taking the mickey out of others though. It's pretty easy now days with spell checks. If you ask at an internet cafe they will show you how it is used. I can understand how it is difficult for old people to grasp new ideas though, so you are forgiven for appearing uneducated. As for the wine sipping part, I prefer other stimulants. You are one grumpy monkey aren't you? I suppose that you deserve a chip on your shoulder at your age. Especially seeing as your problems are probably everyone else's fault but yours. Have a cocoa and settle down with the Reader's Digest old boy.
Elwood, you are an ageist, nappy wearing fool.
You do not understand that with age comes wisdom and deep insight, especially when that aging process has occurred in this very country.
You make out that Mr Latham and The Hardhitter are geriatric fools. They are not.
I am a geriatric fool and don't even know what a Tweet is but a Twit is easily recognised.
55 is a magical age and there are many of us here who have matured gracefully in this environment and have reached or are approaching senility with grace and eager anticipation.
Age allows a person the license to tell those who have just lobbed into town with their smelly backpacks and a heart full of generosity and indignation to wake up and smell the roses.
I don't know what your agenda is but you could still stay on topic.
The topic is: TUK TUK AND MOTODOP DRIVERS WANTING TO MONOPOLIZE THE MARKET IN SHV.
Now that baby Elwood has had his nappy changed and the snot wiped off his face, here's my 2 bobs ( 1 bob is a shilling which is about 10 cents Elwood) worth:
- The private, point to point, transport contractors in SHV are vaginal sphincters
- They curse you as you step into your own CAR
- The only restriction on bike rental should be that a valid motorcycle licence be held by the renter. This is safer for everybody
- The bus pickup objection is plain dumb.
- If the protesting, private, point to point, transport contractors want to be TAXED then continue ranting, else, Shaddup!!!
I hope that this is full of spelling errors and grammatical slips. If so, then there's your Xmas present Elwood!
@ Wal. I appreciate the wit that your old fartdom allows you to express. I have no particular problem with disleksic people, however it irks me somewhat when an inexpressive stalwart incorrectly presents their complaint about my incorrectly presented complaint. As for your 2 bob, I'll jump in my bi-plane and head on over to collect it soon. Please send an express telegram if this is inconvenient. Perhaps I'll spend it on some lard and breadcrusts. Or better, one of those great new moving pictures with the piano player on the side. I wonder if they'll be selling dried figs for me to eat while I watch. As for MY vintage, yes, I did indeed turn up with a backpack and good intentions. In 1999. I have resided here ever since, have always worked for myself, and imagine that over a bottle of blackcurrant juice, we would probably find ourselves in agreement on the subject of do-gooders and NGOs in general. Now, I am off to clean my dentures and make a cup of ginger and lemon before reading the same 10 pages of my book that I have read for the past 4 nights straight before falling asleep in my bread pudding.
@whinesippingnoncewood; LOLZ4sUruizalilTUrdMunCHerLOLSCyaL8R
Hell's bells Hardhitter!
That took me hours to decipher. Had to dust off the old Enigma machine and then found that the ratchet pawl had come loose on the register cam. The damn handbook was in German too, dagnabbit!
has any one seen my walking frame?
who am I?
isn't one of the attractions of senility that you get to wear a nappy again?
Nurse!
LOLZdisamaninnapnapLOLZhahatweetytweet
@ Hardhitter. Not quite what I had in mind when I woke up thinking I'd play with my wii today, but a nice image to carry on the day with nonetheless. I was listening to the talkback wireless this morning at 3am (couldn't sleep what with the hernia playing up and the crook ankle I got getting out of my chair yesterday following elevenses) and I understand the pension plan is being changed once again. Can anybody give me some advice as to how exactly this effects my seniors bus pass, and whether or not this affects the coffee ration? One more question: can anybody help me with the e-messagewebmail that I got over the interweb post box this morning from a nice young Kenyan man regarding my windfall in the Gabon National Lottery? I can't believe my luck. I was in Gabon in the '40s so it must have something to do with that. I have to go and put some witchazel on my bruised knee now, right after I take my daily deer velvet pill, apply my tea-tree oil, pop my ekenasia, take my heart medication, squeeze my hemorrhoids, churn my butter, boil my shirt collars, put my hip out, sip my cod liver oil, polish my clock, and leave my roast beef in the oven for 7 hours on grill while wondering why it isn't cooking before spending the entire afternoon programming my VCR to record the latest episode of Taggart until I realise that I have missed my garden club meeting again and find out that Taggart is on Wednesdays not Thursdays.
Edit by admin - ENOUGH or its locked
hardhitter, it's xmas... have a nice holiday. your account will be reactivated in 2011
Yes, quite so admin. Totally out of hand. We were offending each other without any consideration for ourselves. I totally offended myself and I am shocked that I could say such things about me.
I think I'll have a nap under my bridge and eat any billy goat gruffs that might pass my way.
Back on subject now:
SHV TUK-TUK, bad
SHV Motodop, bad
That's far more interesting and entertaining!!!
hardhitter is a juvenile bore who was repeatedly posting the same nonsense post again and again.. he clearly wanted to be banned for awhile... much like some entice the police to shoot them. Completely mindless
the rest of you can carry on now.
Give me a break elwood,you are full of you you know what.
I can speak enough khmer to converse with people and I have been here long enough to know the score.
The tuk and moto mafia in snooky are as bad as any union anywhere in the world and I am an old union boy,I know how it works.
The old refrain of, if you dont like it go home is bullshit and you should know it.
I have a khmer family and I see the injustice every day,I am not going anywhere.
Oh,except to snookyviile where I am going to spend my twilight years.
You go back to where you come from brigade are pathetic,you dont understand that some of us are committed and are prepared to challenge the stupid khmer status quo.
I mean if you cant compete with buses and rental motos then have a look at your business plan-many of you locals are just ripoff bastards.
And if there is not enough money to go around then ask mr hun sen why the airport in snooky is not functioning or the central or local governments dont make policy decisions to encourage tourism based on national interests rather than personal interests.
Its not rocket science elwood and personal abuse whilst easy is not productive.
The only decent unions in the country are the garment unions and there are 1500 of them-how ridiculous!
Self interest again-typically khmer.
Hopefully eventually there will be consolidation as there was in australia in the mid 1970s and khmer unions will be able to muscle up to the government.
Until then pathetic locals like the snooky moto/tuk gang will be whistling in the wind.
To suggest a bigger political picture to them would be hopeless.
@ marklatham. Well well Latham, you ARE being impestuous! Talking of unions, I read a fantastic book about Jimmy Hoffa not long back called "I hear you paint houses". Well worth the read if you are interested in these things. It'll go well with your prune juice!
I knew this would happen.
We finally get a lively thread and someone gets banned for over exuberance.
The censorship here is stifling expression.
I get the feeling that if mr assange had leaked his stuff to EAS first he would have been called a troll and been ex communicated.
I dont know who this elwood is but he is breath of stale air and should be encouraged,where is jake anyway?
ML, HH was only banned as he was simply posting one liners (not just on this forum topic) which meant absolutely nothing,
He was warned. He does know how to contact me to get back on.
I dont think that this example LOLZdisamaninnapnapLOLZhahatweetytweet is worthwhile to be notified via email (if you have chosen that option) whenever he posts replies.
As I said, he was given warnings and responded that I could go F&*k my self.
If the general forums users feel that they would wish to participate to formulate some guidelines for users, please feel free to start a new topic
Electric moto's aren't covered by the current law. You don't need a license and don't need a helmet to ride one. How would they handle the hills? At about $500 new they'd be cheaper than buying petrol motorbikes and would appeal to young greenies.
Those electric motos are great,one gets 40ks or so between charges.
But khmers dont like them,not sexy at all and no noise.
Ive been thinking about the tuk tuk and safety association in snooky and I think that they may have a point.
We will agree to ban all moto hire and bus pickups with the following conditions.
1.all service providers must have a valid drivers licence($140)
2.all service providers must have third party insurance(hmm maybe $100 pa)
3.all tuk tuks and motos must have a roadworthy certificate available only from the testing station in toul kork(hmm all up maybe $50 to transport vehicles from snooky to PP and back)
4.all service providers must have business registration and pay VAT and income tax.
All right lets get on with it.
Should all be sorted before next christmas.
"khmers don't like them, not sexy at all and no noise" spot on with that statement. A friend was biking quite a distance every day for work and school so I offered an electric moto (for free) and it was turned down because she couldn't have anyone see her riding it. How riding an electric moto is worse for her image than riding a bicycle, I'll never figure out.
I think this might be back on topic but the moto/tuk tuk mafia in Shv are almost as bad as the Phuket version where earlier this year they blocked the American Navy transports from picking up it's sailors when they landed as they wanted to be able to charge the $50 or whatever price they felt acceptable for the 20 minute ride into town. I know they have a justiable poor reputation but they do it to themselves. Whoever is behind this protest stands to make some decent money out of it as I doubt it has been arranged by the $3 a day moto drops from victory hill.
those electric motos aren'ttoo bad when it comes to hills ... and even cheaper option would be an electric bicyle, battery-powered up the hills, pedal the flat section, glide down the hill on the other side ...
main issue with both of these though is, while cheap and economical, not really enough power if you're pilng on 4 or more passengers ... speaking of which, saw a motorbike with 7 people the other night, puffing down monivong blvd ... 3 adults and 4 kids, including 1 sitting atop the handlebars ... O_O
Costs more to go 200 metres in Patong,Phuket riding on a bench seat in the back of a ute than it does to travel 20km in Bangkok to the airport in an air con taxi, Sihanoukville is no different.
Tuk Tuk / moto mafia dons rule. Tourism authorities in Phuket,from what I have heard, dont care and allow intimidation and not so gentle persuasion to prevent competition.Perhaps same thing happening in Sihanoukville.
More from the south coast
Serendipity Beach Road being widened
http://www.expat-advisory.com/forum/asia/cambodia/phnom-penh-pub-expats-...
1st up an on topic question: Are tuk tuk drivers and moto-dups the largest group of self-employed entrepreneurs servicing the international tourism market here in Cambodia? Measured by: raw numbers; Revenues or; Economic activity? Been trying to think if any other group might compare?
This group has the right to organize and lobby the authorities for changes in public policy just like any other group. It is up to the authorities whether they choose to listen or not.
This group's business practices, regardless of whether we agree with them or not, just represent what they believe to be the most profitable in the current market climate. Much the same as any other group of businessmen we might care to identify. Basic Keynesian "Invisible Hand of the Market" economics. (Note: not interested in an argument about is it a "Free Market" "Regulation" "Cartels" etc etc. The current market conditions are what they are and this group has to live with them.) E.G. if being kind and polite to tourists was more profitable someone would start doing it thus increasing their market share and become more profitable. Eventually others would copy this model or lose their market share.
Elwood I suspect your logic is flawed "I did indeed turn up with a backpack and good intentions. In 1999. I have resided here ever since, have always worked for myself, and imagine that over a bottle of blackcurrant juice, we would probably find ourselves in agreement on the subject of do-gooders and NGOs in general." You appear to be condemning "NGOs in general"? You, and probably almost all of us, would not be here in Cambodia if the worlds largest NGO had not came to Cambodia in the early 1990s. Currently the foreign donor community, mostly through NGO implementers, directly or indirectly provide the majority of Health-care services, Education, Water and Sanitation, and Infrastructure in Cambodia. I assume that you would not be here if there were still pre 1990s conditions in Cambodia.
I usually find that if you fracture the surface of an NGO hater what you find is they are "Green with Envy". It is revealing that you choose to include your employment status and your view of NGOs in the same sentence. Could it be that your having "always worked for myself" has yet to generate you the type of rewards that your typical NGO worker enjoys. How does it feel to see those NGO workers pass you in their 4WDs as they go from the expensive restaurants to their BKK villas? As for the do-gooder label, well if you knew a few more NGO workers what you would probably find is that they are simply just educated, skill, hard working individuals that are building a career in a field that offers them the best possible salary, conditions and lifestyle that they can obtain with the qualifications they have. Much the same as anyone else in the free world. If you where to stop and ponder why NGOs do what they do or had any understanding of international donor process, you might realize that what an NGO does here in Cambodia is decided in the Parliaments of (mostly) western governments 1000s of miles from here. If you have "a bug up your arse" about NGOs and their work what you really have is a beef with foreign policy of developed nations (probably much like the one I suspect you where born in and lived most of your life in). So leave NGO workers alone, they are just trying to do the job they have been told to do, and write a letter to your local parliamentarian in what ever country gave you the education and skills that allow you to enjoy you life "working for yourself" in Cambodia.
If you are crazy enough to think that your average NGO worker should quit their well paid jobs as a futile protest at the injustice of this world I have quote for you "Everybody gotta serve somebody" Bob Dylan.
Dear TJP,
You seem to have had the same effect that sarin gas would have on a small tribe in the Middle East. It would seem that some of these people who have nothing better to do all day have met their match. Its is amazing when some people are slapped in the face with truth and reality.
A job well done.
I usually find that if you fracture the surface of an NGO hater what you find is they are "Green with Envy".
I could not agree more with your statement.
No doubt there is envy, but I find people usually only go green when they feel rewards are un-deserved in some way.
Some people might get worked up by the apparent hypocrisy of the more self-righteous NGO's claiming to be saviors, when clearly they are simply exploiting a business opportunity.
Also there's the argument that some NGO's are not only ineffective, but actually harmful in a dutch-disease sense, displacing legitimate enterprise, and so on.
I got pulled up in SV on Sunday morning on a Softail. The cops saw me coming from a long way off and got most excited as they jumped onto the road with their hands in the air. It was my bike, I did not have the rego card but did have my Cambo Licence.
I got a good talking to for the heinous crime of not having my helmet buckled correctly. I was not fined.
Without stating the obvious, the helmet strap is there for a reason. Please use it. The cops just wanted to have a closer look at your Hog.
Getting back to subject now, does anyone have an update on the protest?
Although TJP has stated that he is not interested in arguments about free markets, cartels and such that is exactly what this is about.
The externality that the motodop "union" wishes to adopt flies in the face of Keynesian principals. They are striving to impart protectionism to avoid having to enhance their market position through improvement of their service to enhance desirability.
Many motodop operators do understand that polite friendly service wins sales. They attract regular clientele this way. In Sihanoukville the customer base (tourists) would be more transient and therefore the improvement in service would garner fewer rewards. Yada yada yada.....
Licence as a precondition to rental should be adopted.
Any updates?
Dearest TJP,
Please allow me to respond to some of the more poignant points in your ramble.
Firstly, your inference that my "having "always worked for myself" has yet to generate you the type of rewards that your typical NGO worker enjoys" is, to my thinking, extremely presumptuous on your part. For starters, I also live in a Villa in BKK, and, depending on what you deem expensive of course, also dine in "expensive" restaurants, relatively speaking, several times every week. No, I do not own a 4WD as I do not see the logic in owning an off-road vehicle in the city. Especially one such as the majority of the NGO owned 4WDs which are not equipped with any of the standard off-road equipment such as a snorkel or, and this is so basic that even an idiot would spot it, off-road tires. I ride a moto, am not particularly interested in cars in general, and would rather spend my income on more long term purchases. I would also challenge you to find many NGO workers who are on an equivalent salary to that which I generate for myself. As for any feelings of envy, not really. Off course, some days the grass seems greener on the other side, but that is relevant to almost everybody, we all have days like that. The main difference, as far as I am concerned, is the fact that, after their 1-3 year contract is completed, these people will leave here, therefore not really placing themselves in the stakeholder category in terms of the long term outcomes of their "work", whereas I call Cambodia home and therefore it is essential, to me anyway, that any decisions I make are going to impact those around me in a positive manner for years to come. As for the assumption that I have an inferior level of education to an NGO worker, I am guessing that this is a reflection of your own level of education and your own thoughts that, as you strove to gain qualifications in higher realms of learning, then anyone who didn't is beneath you. If I am wrong here, then please explain the comment concerning education for my clarification. (I do have a Masters degree from such an institute by the way).
I also do not fully agree that what the NGO crowd do here is determined in the corridors of power in the developed world. As part of the MDGs, to which my country of citizenship is a signatory, nearly all governments agreed to a 0.7% contribution to foreign aid relative to GDP. Currently my country contributes just 0.27%, and we are one of the better ones. As you, with your superior knowledge of these things, should know, only one country currently meets this goal. That would be, to my thinking, a good indicator of the weight that western governments TRULY give to this issue. Now, while overall management of government aid programmes falls into the hands of people 1000s of miles from here, the final product and it's success lies largely in the actions of those people who are in-country, the ones who actually determine the areas which most need attention, and how to address these areas. I personally would be very worried if the management of my country's aid programme was determined by folk who sit in offices far away, as their ability to accurately pin-point high-return (and by this I do not necessarily mean financial return) projects to spend our 0.27% on would be limited.
Additionally, Bob Dylan also pointed out in his autobiography "Chronicles", that, just as you have shown here, people have a habit of taking his words and adding ridiculous meanings to them. (Your "Everybody gotta serve somebody" quote could be taken several ways in the context of the song, especially if one were so inclined to lend it a religious undertone, not a career oriented one. As with most religious documents, I believe that this particular line from the "Slow Train Coming" album also opens itself up for interpretation in any number of ways, depending on who is listening to it.) He goes on to write that his words sound good, nothing more, and that's why he chooses to sing them. He is a musician, not a poet. Being in possession of all of his studio albums, most of the available bootlegs, nearly all of his vinyl releases, and DVDs, I could also rack my brain for a quote to sum up my feelings about the NGO industry (and that is exactly what it is) here, but I won't as that would be my take on the quote and I am no scholar of English.
Lastly, if you feel the need to pick on someone who has a lesser status than yourself in terms of financial well-being and education, can I suggest that you first spend some of your "hard-earned" money on a relaxing holiday during which you could ponder your own purpose in life.
Hey Elwood,
What happened to all the funny off the cuff one-liners and the geriatric slurs?
It does not really make a difference whether you "fully agree" or what you would "be very worried" about. Guidelines for donor funding ARE very prescriptive and ARE designed and written in head offices in Western countries. If an in-country proposal does not fit these guidelines you get no money. Its that simple. More good can be done with some money poorly directed than no money at all. That is the choice that is usually faced. Many donor funding guidelines have more to do with domestic political realities of the donor country than the needs of the beneficiary country. A good example of this was under George W Bush: USA anti-AIDS funding for Africa stipulated that one third (USD$5 billion over five years) of all funds had to be spent on Abstinence-until-Marriage programmes and a range of other policies that fly in the face of basic harm minimization policy (E.G. No needle exchanges). I do not think a single NGO public health practitioner in Africa would have recommended this obviously crazy approach but once it became USA policy everyone requiring funding complied. It did however, make the Moral Right of USA domestic politics very happy.
As for NGO workers and their 3 year contracts. 3-5 years is about the standard project funding cycle, roughly equivalent to the democratic electoral cycle (give or take). It is not by chance that these two cycles are related. So workers move on to the next country or next contract. Many NGOs have policy controlling how long an expat worker can work in one country office. Long term commitment to a single country is actively discouraged by a range of measures that usually effect salary and conditions of employment. There is sound reasoning behind this that protects against individuals building too large a knowledge or power base in a practice area in one country and becoming highly influential or even indispensable. It basically leaves the individual with very little choice against what are centralized policies from head office that are endorsed and encouraged by western government.
I notice you choose not to reply to my statements that "You, and probably almost all of us, would not be here in Cambodia if the worlds largest NGO had not came to Cambodia in the early 1990s." or that NGO provide almost all "Health-care services, Education, Water and Sanitation, and Infrastructure in Cambodia". Ain't it a bugger when a couple of big undeniable FACTS gets in the way of our irrational bias.
As for my presumptions, if you don't like presumptions don't publish on a forum under an assumed name. Tell us all who you are and what you do. Publish your CV and 3 years of banking details. Then presumption will no longer be necessary. Until then, live with it.
Elwood it is obvious that you are posting about something that you are merely a "Bar Room" expert on.
Nice one Elwood. I'm glad that you had the time and inclination to elaborate without being personally offensive.
Anthony, how can we get this thread moved to the NGO bagging discussion?
Elwood has covered quite a few potential discussion topics from how 4x4s in the city are plain dumb to lifestyle and income disparities in the expat community.
I must confess that I too drive a 4x4 (properly equipped).In my defense i can only say that it is my only car and my work truck. A 4 wheeled purse/toolbox if you like.
Lately I have been re-discovering the merits of 2 wheeled transportation. Don't much like it when it is raining though.
Now, if those motodop operators in SV were to start an NGO of their own, then somehow this discussion might get back on topic.
Apologies Wal. I know I was off subject but I am far too much of a grumpy bastard to let an opportunity like that slip. As for the motodops down south, I think, as in many instances of Khmer business planning, it is a case of wanting to not only have the cake, but eat it too. I enjoy a good beach holiday as much as the next NGO worker, however choose to take mine in the larger neighbour to the West. I think that Sihanoukville has amazing potential as far as luring tourist dollars into Cambodia, but as with most things, it requires 90% planning, 10% doing. Quality development of the beach areas, services to tourists and transportation options both too and from Snooky as well as within the town, could improve the lives of vast amounts of people in the south, but these things take time and patience which, I believe, the powers that be are not willing to expend, opting instead for a quick dollar. As with so many areas of life and business in Cambodia, there is endless potential for quality, sustainable development if only...
Regarding the merits or otherwise of SV, I read your comments in the "PNH is bloody awful" discussion.
It too went off topic and became a "Why I hate or love SV" topic. That's the beauty of the Pub. Conversations go off on a tangent and before you know it we're all talking about something else and nobody remembers where we started. A bit like a rant in the shed with your mates.
Too good.
SV has that same atmosphere that small coastal towns in Oz used to have way back when I was young and can hardly remember anymore. Visually spectacular, rough around the edges, nice air, beaches, space to run amok.
I always look forward to working down there. Office on the beach........
Quick bucks allow accumulation of capital to do something better I suppose.
All good things will come. The slow pace of development there can only be a good thing least it turn into a Phuket.
Somebody mentioned a possible rail passenger service. If it does happen then the motodops will be happier. I have heard on authority that the refurbished railway will not have a passenger service unless it is paid for by the RGC. Apparently there is no money in a passenger service. All that work is for freight.
The airport has been toyed around with for years. Who knows when that will happen.
In the meantime we can enjoy its rustic solitude for a while longer. The drive down there is very pleasant IMO. I have some favourite stops along the way.
Dear old TJP,
I would have kept to the funny one-liners and geriatric slurs had someone not charged in with such a load of crap that I have spent the past few days cleaning the you-know-what off my computer screen.
Nice one. Can I assume that your real name is TJP then? If I were to reply to ALL of the nonsense that you have published here, we would need another website dedicated to it. Sure, the UN made Cambodia more accessible to us foreigners. Whooppee. Should I thank the people that colonised my country several centuries ago for allowing me to have the existence I do? Where does it end? This is the same UN that still recognised the Khmer Rouge well into the 1980's right? In your initial drivel, you comment on Basic Keynesian "Invisible Hand of the Market" economics, and tuktuk drivers rights to exercise this practice. Can you please point out to me the areas of this theory that involve large donations, outside enforcement of internal monetary policy, regulation etc, and the supply of essential services by do-gooders, rather than in a manner which will maximise economic activity for all involved?
Your line "More good can be done with some money poorly directed than no money at all", may I ask if you really thought that through before posting it? I think that this attitude sums up many peoples thoughts about the extractive industry that is the NGO sector.
Please contact me by PM if you wish to receive my CV. As for banking details, I think we know what the chances are of that. Is it possible that these requests be kept sensible, or would you need to form a committee to talk about forming a sub-committee in order to determine whether or not to allow the aforementioned committee to set up a committee in order to answer that question?
Hey Elwood
Good to see you back on form. As to my real name? I am not the one whinging about presumptions about who I am and what I do. I like the anonymity of forums and really do not care what people presume of me and don't care to ever know who others are.
I do think we are posting at slightly cross purposes. I am suggesting that any problems that people have with NGOs has very little to do with the people we see around us in Cambodia working for NGOs. It is a just a screwed up system! I think we may even agree on that?
Banning rentals to Barangs in Snooky would seriously cut into the incomes of the local constabulary. I doubt it would ever happen. There are too many business operators down there that have much larger investments in their rental businesses than the cost of a Tuk. As in PP there are just too many of them now, five years ago I don't remember seeing any down there. I have spent a few extended weekends recently on my own bike or rented moto down there and every time one heads into town you run the risk of being stopped if for no other reason than you are not Khmer. I counsel my friends and family to never stop for these roadside toll collectors and generally they are OK. Really if you stay off Ekereach and use the back streets you will be safe anyway. One guy was fined $50 for not having the helmet strap done up, and being a tourist he paid them and promptly left town. So who is the big loser?
Recently I was on my XR400 Honda with a friend on another XR. As we left a light (green) with a group of motos they attempted to stop myself and my friend. I had told him when we set out on the road trip never to stop for the police, a foreign concept in the west and if forced to stop what ever happens always remove the keys from the bike and never pay them more than 1$. They asked for his license and he informed them that it was at the hotel and he could go and get it. After a little back and forth he gave the guy a buck and drove off.
Another time I was on a moto and my son on another behind me when just past the 333 intersection, with the light that sometimes works and sometimes not, just as we went through a cop jumped out from behind his hiding spot and waved us over. I swerved around him and gunned it and my son did the same and both of us got away. Other times even out on the roads up country I have had police standing in the middle of the road blowing a whistle at me and I blast by them with one hand upturned as if to say huh??
As for getting over to Otres in a tuk, this is just not a nice trip, the road being in terrible condition, one is always better to take the Queen Hill shortcut on a moto. Yes it is open again after many attempts by ? to close this access, but this is another story in itself.
Latest from snooky,motos 1,bus passengers 0.
The bus station has relocated from its last resting place near the market to the top of the hill near victory.
The motos and tuks are expensive and aggressive there.
At night some buses arrive and depart from their companies offices on eckareach.
Latest from snooky,motos 1,bus passengers 0.
The bus station has relocated from its last resting place near the market to the top of the hill near victory.
The motos and tuks are expensive and aggressive there.
At night some buses arrive and depart from their companies offices on eckareach.