Just arrived back home after the missus and I spent some 4 hours stuck on Koh Pich ... we were just about to cross back to the mainland from the island when the stampede started, and police started cordoning the area off ... total chaos' prolly the best way to describe it ...

spent most of my 4 hours trying to help out, inclusing performing CPR on 4 girls that got fished out of the river ... unfortunately only managed to revive 2 of them ... ( ... of the other 2, only 1 had a pulse when they rushed her to hospital, but nevertheless, hope the ambulance crews managed to do more than my meagre first aid skills ...

From talking to the locals, some of the security and event management staff, and first-hand experience, I gather the following chain of events occurred; not sure these events occurred in this order though, but it's close:
- about 30-odd people were electrocuted (few direct deaths, but many losing consciousness, suffering severe burns) from contact with the metal guard rails on either side of the bridge ...
- about a dozen people fainted from the crush of the crowd, heat exhaustion, dehydration, or a combination of these, and fell underfoot ...
- Crowd panicked from the electrocutions and surged into a stampede; More people tripped or got pushed over, and got trampled underfoot ...
- People started jumping off the bridge into the river below to escape the mob; some were electrocuted climbing over the railings; some died from jumping into shallow water, or missing the water altogether, and landing on the concrete escarpments. One of the girls I performed CPR on had a nasty gash stretching from her collarbone down to just past her belly button ... not bleeding too badly, but was still a pain to patch up half-decently ...
- Curious onlookers surged towards the bridge from both ends trying to find out what was going on. POLICE WERE VERY FORCEFULLY PUSHING BYSTANDERS BACK, USING FISTS, BATONS, PISTOLS, AND PIECES OF METAL PIPING!!! ==>> AND IN PARTICULAR, SHAME SHAME SHAME ON THE BIG BLACK GUY WITH THE AMERICAN ACCENT THAT PHYSICALLY ASSAULTED MY WIFE AND I, NOT ONCE BUT TWICE: WHEN I TRACK DOWN YOUR DETAILS, I'LL BE USING ALL MY POLICE AND LEGAL CONTACTS TO PRESS CHARGES!! <<== Wish more foreigners could've put their energies into helping the wounded, as opposed to bashing up on the innocent bystanders ...
- Some police near the Koh Pich end of the bridge fired warning shops to try to disperse the crowd, but it only served to set off a 2nd panic, since no-one at that stage knew who was shooting, nor at who or what ...
- The crowd was warned to stay away from the metal guard rails along the easter edge of Koh Pich, for fear of electrocution. Around the same time, all the neon lights on the bridge were turned off, along with most of the street lamps along the eastern shore of the island.

As of 3am on Tuesday morning, the official death toll sits at 332 deaths, and 329 injured ...

a moment of silence please ...

ironically, the bayon TV concert a couple of hundred metres away blasted on throughout all of this ... ... ...

Thanks for this report Azuriel. And it seems they now have a barang scapegoat.

I'm curious as to what the "big black guy" thought he was achieving by hitting your wife. Was he trying to get somewhere? or did he think he was calming her down.

Thanks for being there to help.

well, he punched me and shoved her - hard ... as to the why, maybe i'll get an answer when i've tracked him down ... the cambodian judicial sytem being hopeless as it is, nevertheless, having inlaws in the ministr of justice helps at times ... hehehe ...

another update on the bridge: at 3:20am on tuesday morning, the diamond bridge was barricaded from both ends, by orders from the King, who has ordered a full investigation to the cause of death. In a statement minutes before, he said he felt it most unlikely that so many people could have died fom trampling alone, and that if another cause existed, his police investigators have been tasked to find it ...

wonder what effect his will have on the remaining ~$US200+ million in construction projects planned for koh pich ... ? ... if any ... ? ...

Well it shouldn't be too hard to find the guy (unless he's already on his way to the airport!!)

The reports of electrocutions are interesting. I wait to hear if it was due to the lights (as some reports said) or from metal railings on the bridge. Either way, someone didn't do a good job.

The police have not had control of any crowd since this started and appears to be worse this year than any other. Being someone who has a background in security, it was obvious the police at the checkpoint near my apartment on Sotheros were on the verge of getting overrun and you could see it on their faces. AS the evening wears on the cops started drinking and just didn't care about anything or anyone, so I can imagine what it must have been like at the bridge. An example is firing shots in the air, with an already panicked crowd. (This is a desperate act to gain control, that often fails in this confined space and situation) It is unfortunate that this has happened, but it was a matter of time before there was a major infrastructure failure (if that is confirmed?)here and I am sure it will not be the last.

How very sad. One of the great holidays in Phnom Penh that I have celebrated with friends and realtives, thinking the worst that could happen was purse snatching.

Panic in a crowd always leads to a huge death toll, it is human instinct to try and get to safety. One death is a huge loss..

My thoughts and prayers go out to all.

I hate the water festival and the millions of aimless people.
just rang my missus who is at calamette sorting through bodies looking for a missing younger brother.
When I heard the report on the early morning news I had a feeeling that tragedy may have struck us.

sorry to hear that your family may have suffered a personal loss, ML. The thing is, as much as some may hate the millions of people, to most young Cambodians it's a huge celebration and a time of great joy.

Hopefully some good comes of it... like those responsible are accountable.

ML - update us here or SMS my phone with news of Di's brother. I hope he is Ok. My BILaw was out there and got stuck in the crush, escaped and spent the night on a drip.

Such a sad tragedy, at what is meant to be such a joyful event for the locals.

Was this the first year Koh Pich had events staged for the water festival?

Should have been foreseen by those in charge of organizing and policing the event.
4 years ago I lived above the pate-baguette shop on Hun Sen Park, and the crowds at 9/10pm are choker-block, all across the park and roads (what? About a 6 lane highway size?) back to back, 10's of thousands of people and to think that volume of people could cross over the single lane bridge leading to Koh Pich!!!

Makes me sick with anger. So sad. My thoughts go out to all those affected.

and it will come as absolutely no surprise that the police who were in control of the entry points where they were supposed to keep out vehicles & motos were each allowing hunders through at 2,000 riel a pop (for motos).

500 riel if on foot.

on the road blockades ... what was the point of blockng traffic off from the independence monument side access to the diamond bridge, when there are 2 other bridges (thati know of) further south, linking koh pich to the mainland ... ? ... we drove across one of them, to arrive about 50 metres from the concert stage on the island ... even if they'd told people about the other 2 bridges, and spread the load across all 3 (the other 2 are bigger bridges, designed more for trucks than pedestrians and motorbikes ... hindsight's a great thing, isn't it ... ? ...

ML: hope the in-law gets found and is okay ... saw several mothers trying to find their kids last night, terrible scene ...

flicking thru local tv channels this morning, seems most of them were reporting that a majority of the victims taken to hospital had suffered BURNS t the palms of their hands, and/or to the soles of their feet ... some also had a narrow horizontal burn across their back ... to me, this sounds suspiciously like electrical burns from holding onto the railings (burnt palms), leaning back on the railings (horizontal burn across the back), and waling across poorly-insulated sections of footpath (burnt soles of feet - electrical charge from steel girders coming up thru the cement and asphalt?!?) ... waiting to hear more from investigators ...

water cannons, is that what they were ... ? ...

what i DID see was a pair of fire trucks spraying big arcs on and over the sides of the bridge, but couldn't figure out what for, since there wasn't any burning, asfar as i could see ...

Well done Azuriel - you're a hero! I note also from reports that some other foreigners who are heroes of this tragedy are some Aussie firefighters from a charity called AFIRE who are here to help Cambodian authorities with Water Festival rescue services. Well done guys!

Heartfelt condolences go out to all those who lost someone - a sad day for Cambodia. ML, I hope your in-law has been found safe and well.

Azuriel - I wish you luck in tracking down and dealing with the arsehole who assaulted you and your wife. In-law MoJ contacts can be very useful. I previously worked in an offshoot of Hun Sen's office. I'm sure that former colleagues there would be very interested in your account. Please let me know if you'd like that information passed on.

I think LTO Cambodia sums it up well

Water Festival Tragedy

I wish I had something profound to say. I wish I had some great insight to offer. I wish I could say why all this happened. I wish I could blame the Cambodian police for failing to control the crowds beforehand, letting too many people on the bridge, taking bribes to let people through, for their incompetence, for firing shots and using water cannons contributing to the panic and rush. I wish I could blame shoddy workmanship for electrocuting people and starting the panic. I wish I could be as callous as KI Media, immediately taking political advantage, calling for resignations and blaming the 'Yuon.' I wish I could blame the Khmers for being gawkers and rubberneckers and running toward the panicking crowd to see what was happening. I wish I could blame some "big black guy with an American accent" for pushing people around rather than helping. I wish I could blame the endemic corruption and greed in this society for ill-conceived plans and poor design. I wish I could be angry at the government for praising and giving the police a pass just hours after the tragedy. I wish I could fault the Prime Minister for crying crocodile tears and trying to write it off as "just an accident" before knowing what really happened. I wish I could blame the Bayon stage for continuing to blast music through the whole thing. I wish I could blame bad luck, karma or fate for turning this heartless way. I wish I could blame God for allowing this evil to happen. I wish I could rail against somebody or something. I wish I could put this all on somebody else. Somehow it would seem that might help alleviate the sorrow over this disaster, if only a bit. But at this point we don't know exactly what happened or why. And recriminations, though understandable from those directly affected, are for the rest of us at this point only self-serving and perhaps unfair and damaging. I can only feel for the people that have been killed and injured and their families and loved ones who are suffering horrible loss at this very moment. The dead women and children, the families destroyed. I am haunted by the image a man crying over his dead child, happiness only a moment before. I can only try to empathize with the grief and pain they must be feeling and offer my deepest most heartfelt sympathies. It's the only thing of which I am certain and all I have right now, as little and inadequate as it is.

from LTO Cambodia

Well it turned out Ok for us,the boy turned up.
Devastating for others of course.
I was going to ring KK this morning from BKK as i had a feeling that he may have had family involved,but my phone was U/S.
Hope he is OK, KK.
KI media comments response is sickening,as usual.
I hate the water festival and I cant believe that this has never happened before,so many people moving around.
My missus described the numbers of bodies at calamet and the russian hospital.
The bodies will have been looted of phones,jewelry and ID so identification will be a nightmare.
She claims that they inject the bodies with a chemical that delays decay but I find this hard to believe.
I think that there will be cremations for many before identification especially with so many people from the provinces and minimal refrigeration.
Another tragedy for the families.
Driving home tonight along the bassac river road and there are so many candles burning outside houses for the victims.
Apparently only four children amongst them,I hope this is true.
Well done to the barangs who tried to help with resucitation etc.
I doubt that cambodian police have any skills in this area.
I see that compensation is being offered by the government,this will no doubt he another debacle with many true victims missing out and officials lining their pockets.
Poor fella my country.

heard something on tv about the king offering a thousand bucks per victim dead ... seems cheap to me but ... ... ...

ML: glad the boy's okay!

preservation shouldn't be such a big deal, one would think ... half the butchers inject their chickens and fish with formalin, so as a last resort, a few dozen barrels of that stuff will preserve the bodies at least ofr a week or so ... ... ...

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/11/22/world/asia/AP-AS-Cambodia-Sta...

Quite a good bit of reporting.

Does anyone know if/how people can make donations to the families affected?

If you are in Cambodia, you can do it via the major Universities.

>Does anyone know if/how people can make donations to the families affected?

Simple question, challenging answer.

There is a National Committee for Disaster Management. They are collecting donations via the universities. Some are skeptical about the efficacy of the government. But this effort is under a lot of scrutiny, which I hope will increase the degree of transparency.

Coordinating with the Committee are (at last count) Caritas, OXFAM International, World Vision Cambodia, CARE, and Save The Children, which will be coordinating with the National Committee. I'd be surprised if the Cambodian Red Cross is not involved also.

At the moment, I'd recommend giving to one of these international groups as they have to account for donations and their disbursement in their annual reports.

There are many more unofficial and individual efforts appearing too, just to complicate things. I have an unconfirmed report that the government of Thailand will be contributing relief money.

I think the villagers will be sorted financially in the short term. I hope there can be a reasoned and civil discussion about how this tragedy came about in future days.

Unofficial Resources list: http://jinja.apsara.org/2010/11/resources-stampede/

Browsing though this morning's edition of the phnom penh post, two paragraphs jumped out at me, so i've taken the liberty of quoting them here ...

"Hundreds die in tragic end to water festival"
"A doctor at Calmette hospital, who declined to give his name, said after a preliminary assessment the principal causes of death among the victims he had examined were suffocation and electrocution."

"The mourning after"
"“Many people were on the bridge as it began to shake and cut the electrical wires. When people touched the cables, they were electrocuted,” he said. The government had dismissed such reports as rumours ... "

so ... are we to believe the doctor, or the government official ... ? ... hmmmm ...

The Cambodia Daily has very, very comprehensive coverage in today's edition.

It is probably their most informative edition in a long time.

Who really cares, they dont care about themselves and whatever a westerners views are it does matter. They had comments from crowd control experts after the fact, but do you think they would pay a consultant do it in the planning stage....NO! So everyone can vent and wring their hands and debate the reports. I mean really enough is enough, its done and as with everything else it must be a lesson taught in carnage and lives.

I think that many people DO care warhorse. Nothing about Cambodia seems to make you happy.

You might want to try an anger management course, a cross cultural course or possibly a holiday far away from here.

Here is a great piece from Eric Clapton for those who have lost loved ones

You are breaking my heart and you are absolutely right. The longer I am stuck here the more I dislike it. But don't worry, come the 1st of March gone. And all you hand holders can have the place and keep turning a blind eye to everything.

I hate the water festival.
The cambodians have no respect for them selves or others.
Obvious if one drives here.
They are like lemmings,have people seen the numbers of rubber neckers at the bridge these last two evenings?
These people must have all seen the bridge before,what are they looking for now?
The dead will have been stripped of all their valuables by police and hospital workers,ID is a problem of course.
Will the khmers learn anything from this-doubtful.
I drive around today and their driving habits were abysmal as usual,one would think that they might have reflected on their own safety after this tragedy-nah of course not.
The inquiries will be all cover up,they might find a convenient scapegoat or two.
Why would one give to any charity?
The funds will be stripped by the opportunists of course.
I hate the water festival.
In thailand it is beautiful,here it is just grunge.
Aah the mysterious east....

PS edit here.
Missus claims multiple bus crashes tonight reported on TV.Battamabang,kompong cham and kandal-many dead.
Will these brain dead people ever learn?

Best ML you accompany Warhorse to the airport? Sorry to say, but if so then good riddance to both of you and your cantankerous moans. No need to reply, I doubt anyone on this board gives two hoots about your collective nonsensical bullshit - other than either laugh or just sigh. (The local board for that sort of absurdity is K440 of course, go back to posting there might be best, they love your somewhat misguided but occasionally amusing inanities there).
Grab your pensions, go back to Aus or NZ or wherever and see how well you get on there these days.

ML , I read between the lines that you actually really, sincerely do care about your adopted country and its citizens; so why demean youreslf, and them, with these continuous negative rants?
Yes the traffic is frustrating; at least the cops here basically leave you alone.
If you cannot handle driving here, you can always walk.
If you cannot really assimilate here, well you know where the airport is.
If you really want to make changes to the country, I am sure you are clever enough to know where and how.
Look at the positives, and try and help on the negatives. I know that you quietly do that already.

For fucks sake, now in particular is hardly the time for insensitive posts such as yours above.

You didnt have to tell me twice.
you didnt have to tell me twice.
Missus reports that news tonight reports multiple bus accidents from battambang,kandal and kompong cham with many dead.
Can this be true?
Hope not.
But would reflect stupid igorant khmer practices,wouldnt it?
I shed many tears yesterday morning after watching the 6.30 news in bangkok and ringing the missus.
Look at the positives bro?
What fucking positives?
The khmers are insensitive to each other,arent they?
Answer me a few questions,do you have a khmer family?
Do you speak khmer?
Do you live in a khmer ghetto?
Your answers will reveal your commitment.
I believe that my situtaion here is unlike most others.
If you want to see insensitive posts just go to KI media.
Tell me honestly,if that is possible,did you cry like me?
I doubt it.
let us know bro?
As for the cops-,you are are happy that they leave you alone?
They were of course taking bribes to let cars and motos on to diamond island,of course.
Makes you happy i guess.
Musnt apportion blame here....

here we go, will try to put your q's in italics and my answers not in italics, if that fails well you'll just have try to work it out.
Was accidental double post get over it.

The khmers are insensitive to each other,arent they?

not what I witnessed, particularly the other night, nor in my normal day to day. No more insensitive than, oh, the French, Aussies, Germans, Spanish, Vietnamese, Kiwis are.
Poms, well maybe. Scots - never.

Answer me a few questions,do you have a khmer family? No, Vietnamese. So what?
Do you speak khmer? A bit, so what?
Do you live in a khmer ghetto? No, and am happy not to. I earn my money and live the way I like. Tough tittys if you dont. Again, so what?

Cops, I was referring to your general moaning aboad driving. Keep in mind, I hate to say this, but Bus crashes occur not just here. Sad but true

Of course the cops were taking money, its the holiday remember? They get paid bugger all anyway. They are not the cause nor the symptom.

Of course there is blame to be apportioned, hello where the hell do you think you are?

Finally, how dare you equate your tears with mine or anyone elses.

Fuck off.

This thread is not the appropriate forum for this. My apologies for the sidetrack.

This thread is not the appropriate forum for this. My apologies for the sidetrack.

not what I witnessed, particularly the other night, nor in my normal day to day. No more insensitive than, oh, the French, Aussies, Germans, Spanish, Vietnamese, Kiwis are.
Poms, well maybe. Scots - never.

you forgot the Americans...

I was hoping that a tragedy of this scale would have resulted in a much broader and thorough inquiry than appears to be the case following "initial reports" of the government's investigation committee. And initial reports always reflect the final report.

"Initial reports" indicate that bridge overloading causing swaying created panic that resulted in the deaths, and downplay the effect of water cannons and electrocutions (one article I read noted that the bridge lighting system is 12 volts!).

Such a tragedy in a developed country would automatically result in an immediate coronial inquest and subsequent royal commission or equivalent with specific terms of reference and technical expertise in order to independently and authoritatively find causes for the deaths and recommendations to prevent similar occurrences.

But here it seems that there are too many with influence who are only concerned about covering their arses, and their cohorts', and not finding fault where it duly lies.

I feel really sad for the victims' families that they may never know with certainty the real causes of their loved ones' deaths.

I doubt we'll ever know really. I would like to think that the water cannons (was it the fire truck that washes down the car park daily next to the exhibition center?) were used simply - and at the time probably very justifiably - as has been reported; to provide water for desperate thirst and heat relief. I suspect if I were manning a fire hose I would do a similar thing under the circumstances - whether rightly or wrongly.

No deaths have been reported to my knowledge directly from electrocution - suffocation appears to be the main culprit. Many however suffered burns to hands and feet as we know.

The published conclusion that the swaying bridge scared the mainly countryside people seems pretty valid really if you think about it. That, plus an ensuing mass panic and confusion - easy to see how it happened.

the countryside people were scared by the swaying bridge. Do you think the city people had ever experienced a swaying bridge with thousands of people on it? I think not. They would have been scared too. In fact, I'd have been mighty uncomfortable with the swaying that would have resulted with that number of people walking across it at one time!!! And if numbers had been kept down on the bridge, the swaying would have been less.

I'm sickened that they are saying the country folk were too stupid to know about swaying bridges. A very nice way of shifting responsibility on to the uneducated simple folk.

SOS went around to all hospitals to find out what they could do on the Tuesday and they worked out that the best thing they could do was purchase hundreds of liters of formaldehyde to pump into the bodies that were outside under hot tents to prevent them from decomposing before they were identified.

that or what the local butechers call formlin ... same stuff, right?

ML: am i one of the few who actually agree to some of your sentiments ... ? ...

R63, I agree with most of what you say, and also with Violet re townfolk v countryfolk. But a thorough inquiry should do more than simply find how people died/were injured. There are three key issues here:

1. The events leading up to the panic - PLANNING AND PREPAREDNESS. Is the bridge design within tolerance? What are the loading figures? Does it meet relevant (?) safety criteria? Who owns it? OCIC (Overseas Cambodia Investment Corporation) seems to be disowning it!! Who's responsible for bridge traffic during a major event? Was a risk assessment done for (a) the Water Festival, and (b) significant sub-events such as that on Koh Pich? Where do the responibilities of the police and other security agencies intersect/overlap with those of the Koh Pich organisers? Do all agencies and organisers understand clearly their roles and responsibilities for public safety?

2. The events during the panic - RESPONSE. Did security agencies/event organisers follow pre-planned procedures (if any)? Did some of their actions make the situation worse? What else could have been done to mitigate the number of casualties?

3. The mid-longer-term events post-panic - RECOVERY. Has enough been done to help surviving victims and families/communities of deceased? What needs to be done to restore public confidence? What needs to be done to restore tourism/investment potential for Koh Pich/Cambodia?

The report needs to address all issues and make specific recommendations with follow-up to ensure that something like this can not happen again. Sadly, I am not convinced that this will happen to the extent it should.

I'm not sure the official ownership of OCIC/Canadia is all that transparent, and certainly not the real ownership.
I only note that since the mysterious name changes, the PM has been very keen to direct traffic and custom to that small Island, for example, exhorting people to get married at the new center there versus Mondial, and of course the plans for the tallest tower and so on.
No doubt he was enthusiastic about attracting the crowds over the festival.
I think I've heard the term crocodile tears mentioned over this whole tragic episode, and I rather concur.

I believe there was some change in ownership of the bank and its other assets during the global financial crisis. Some deals were done to ensure its viability and since then they have been doing fairly well, even Canadia Tower has tenants which I thought would never happen and up to this week Diamond Island was very successful.

Overall a lot of contributing factors to this tragedy, probably neither the company or the government had considered this otherwise more would be done.

These things happen all around the world but the important thing is for the authorities to learn from it and improve things for the future.

At any rate most Cambodian's will be too scared of that island and bridge now due to the ghosts and bad luck.

Warhorse, during the 2008 national election I saw three water cannon trucks on 24hr standby at the National Police Commissariat on southern Norodom. There's no question that they know how to use them. I have no idea if these were at the Water Festival or used during the panic, but I would have to say that they would have been on alert for use if necessary.